Tuesday, March 17, 2015

Book II: Chapters 9-12 & Book III: Chapters 1-2

You know the routine! Be sure to look at the prompt handout, too. Write your comments by Thursday, March 19.

43 comments:

Unknown said...

In chapter 9 Louisa comes to an abrupt stop in her life and takes a long look at her childhood. This all starts when Louisa goes and visits her mother on her death bed, she see how her little sister Jane is being raised by Sissy. She sees how child like she is, how she could imagine things that would make Louisa frowned upon by her father. Louisa sees that Jane doesn't have to go by facts, and have a more normal childhood. In chapter 12 Louisa confronts her father telling him "how could you give me life, and take from me all the in appreciable things that it from the state of conscious death? Where are the graces of my soul? Where are the sentiments of my heart? What have you done, O father, what have you done, with the garden that should have bloomed once, in this great wilderness here?"(pg. 209) Louisa blames her father about her horrible childhood and tells him that she wouldn't be married to Mr. Bounderby if it wasn't for her father and instead would be married to James Harthouse. Mr. Gradgrind agrees with Louisa but he knows that there is nothing that he can do now, the past is the past.

Unknown said...

In chapter 12 Louisa confronts Gradgrind about how she was raised. She says that he raised her in "a state of conscious death"(ch. 12) because he raised her only on facts and didn't allow her to think with her heart. After Louisa confronts her father, Gradgrind seems to regret how he raised her. He even asks Louisa "what can I do, child? Ask me what you will."(ch 12). I think that Gradgrind will start to try and change how he raises his children. However I think that he will be unable to change his views on facts because he is so accustomed to his factual life now.

Anonymous said...

Concerning Book 2, Chapters 10 and 11, the symbolism of the imaginary Staircase created by Mrs. Sparsit is very important because it represents the downward spiral that Louisa is entering. She is on the cusp of a potential fall in her reputation, if she were to elope with Harthouse. It also shows the dark side of Mrs. Sparsit and how capable she is of evil. "She erected in her mind a mighty Staircase, with a dark pit of shame and ruin at the bottom"(ch.10). In Mrs. Sparsit's mind, she is able to watch Louisa stumble into a "pit of shame", which shows how she feels in control of Louisa's fate. The Staircase also symbolizes how women must conduct themselves in that era, and Louisa is walking down the Staircase because of her intent to tarnish her reputation by acting against societies laws of conduct.

Anonymous said...

I agree with Merritt. I predict Mr. Gradgrind will have second thoughts about his upbringing of Louisa and Tom after Louisa's break down. He will begin to feel guilty because it's his fault Louisa was brought up that way and had no chance to find true love. Mr. Gradgrind is a good man he does love his family. The way he raised his children is the way he thought was best, he had no idea these would be the consequences. He will want to fix his ways but he won't know how to. Facts are all he knows. Mr. Gradgrind will then read Mrs. Gradgrind's letter and know what was missing. It was imagination. Sissy is now a pivotal role in the book and in the family. She is who is going to save Louisa. She will teach the family how to imagine and have real love.

Anonymous said...

I agree with Wyatt's comment regarding chapter 9. Louisa's life and outlook are strongly affected within the chapter. The sight of her mothers death is just one reason for her reflection and self evaluation. The quote from Louisa in chapter 12 and the chapter in a whole is the revealing of her true feelings. She had all that built up anger and it eventually spilled out of her. Louisa's breakdown is reflect ant upon how damaging and ineffective Gradgrind's teaching methods were. Seeing how Jane has been raised and the happiness in her has made Louisa self aware of the flaws in her upbringing. What's even more upsetting for Louisa is that there is nothing she or anyone else can do about it. Mr.Gradgrind is remorseful as he now sees how miserable Louisa is and how he has ruined her life. However, like Wyatt said, there is nothing he can do to change what he's done.

Anonymous said...

The chapter "Another Thing Needful" shows a lot of change within the Gradgrind family and Coketown society. In the first chapter it presents the town like a well oiled machine. They run under order and fact. However after this chapter the faults of the upbringing of the children are accentuated. Louisa's break down shows that you need imagination in your life. The society tried to change Sissy into the mold expected from Coketown. But during this chapter Sissy's imagination is what's going to save the Gradgrind family. "Whatever you want most, if I could be that. At all events, I would like to try to be as near it as I can" (page 171). Sissy wants to help Louisa find her imagination and find herself. The Gradgrinds only know fact so now they need Sissy to teach them how to use their imagination.

Unknown said...

Mrs. Sparsit's staircase in these chapters represents Louisa cheating on Bounderby and how Mrs. Sparsit sees this as a stairway into sin. "She erected in her mind a mighty Staircase, with a dark pit of shame and ruin at the bottom; and down those stairs, from day to day and hour to hour, she saw Louisa coming." (ch. 10). It seems as though all Mrs. Sparsit wants is for Louisa to cheat on Bounderby. We could also use connect the metaphor of the staircase to a stairway to hell and as Louisa sins she gets further and further down the stairs.

Unknown said...

I agree with Erin that the staircase not only symbolizes Louisa's path "downward" because of her involvement with James Harthouse, but also the power that Mrs. Sparsit believes she has over Louisa's fate. "She erected in her mind a mighty Staircase, with a dark pit of shame and ruin at the bottom"(ch.10)I also agree with Erin that the staircase is symbol for the way that women have to take extra care to conduct themselves because of societal expectations. It is also important that Mrs. Sparsit is the one who imagines the staircase because it is an example of how the oppressed oppress themselves,and women are often more likely to police each other about their relationships and sexual conduct than men.

Unknown said...

I agree with maddie, at the beginning of the third book everything has fallen apart and now needs to be put back together to help the Gradgrind family. Even though sissy was considered a complete frailer by Tom Gradgrind, she is the one who will put all the broken and lost pieces of this family back together. Sissy now needs to help the Gradgrind's find their imagination in which they can actually truly love something, instead of just "loving" the facts that were forced upon them as children.

Unknown said...

Chapter 12 is a very important chapter of the novel. Louisa's interaction with her father regarding her childhood is a very heated, emotional one. Louisa's father, Gradgrind was not a good father to Louisa, and in this chapter she addresses that with her agreeable father. Louisa states at one point: "What you have never nurtured in me, you have nurtured in yourself; but O! If you had only done so long ago, or if you had only neglected me, what a much better and much happier creature I should have been this day!" She is stating that her father's weak, fake love is just enough for her to accept him. She says if he was neglectful, it would be easier and more sensible for her to despise him. She no doubt would have been a more independent woman and would have made her own decisions without regard to her father's interests. Basically she would not be married to Bounderby.

Anonymous said...

I agree with Merritt's prediction. After the confrontation with Louisa, Gradgrind will regret raising his children with facts. He will probably try to change the way he raises his children but it will be harsh for him as he had raised his children with facts for years. Facts were something he had stood by and taught to children. Facts were part of Gradgrind's everyday life.

Anonymous said...

In the first chapter of Book 1, "The One Thing Needful", Mr. Gradgrind expresses how facts are important in life and are needed to the children. He believes "nothing else will ever be of any service to them"(ch.1). He also mentions that his principle of facts was taught to his children. In the chapters that follow afterwards, we see more of Gradgrind's devotion to facts. In the first chapter of Book 3, Another Thing Needful, Gradgrind's devotion to facts has died down after Louisa's confrontation. When Gradgrind talks to Louisa again, he reveals his principle about facts shouldn't have been used to raise his children. Facts hadn't brought happiness to his family. Gradgrind wishes to help Louisa to find her happiness but feels he is unable to due to his life dedication to facts. Gradgrind has changed his perspective about what's most important in life. Sadly, his change in opinion arrives too late, as his past teachings had already been implanted into his children. He can only rely on Sissy's assistance and hope she will bring joy to his family.

Anonymous said...

I would like to add on to Wyatt's comment about Louisa blaming her father for her lack of a childhood and how her life is at the moment. I think that because Louisa was raised in such an environment surrounded by facts, and now she compares that to how Jane is being raised, she feels robbed of a childhood that could've been hers, therefore she feels the need to blame her father. When she says, "O father, what have you done, with the garden that should have bloomed once, in this great wilderness here?"(ch.12), she is expressing her anger at the fact that her father stunted her imagination, and in turn, her life. The blame is fair considering that Gradgrind forced facts and a colorless life on Louisa, and he also forced her to marry Bounderby. I think that Gradgrind may consider changing his ways because of how they affected Louisa, but it will be hard for him to break out of him mold.

Unknown said...

After reading the chapter Mrs.Sparsit's staircase I realized that that chapter spoke volumes of her character. "Now Mrs.Sparsit was not a poetical woman; but she took an idea in the nature of allegorical fancy, into her head.... She erected in her mind a mighty staircase, with a dark pitiful shame and ruin at the bottom; and down those stairs from day to day and hour to hour she saw Louisa coming." Basically the only pleasure that Mrs.Sparsit found in her life was imagining Louisa running to a pit of awfulness. And that's basically the epitome of a pathetic woman. Mrs.Sparsit is a sad jealous pitiful woman and she is truly dreadful. For her also to spy on Louisa and try to follow her and James into town is so terribly annoying as well. I loathe her.

Anonymous said...

Chapters 9, 10, and 11 reveal a new side of Mrs. Sparsit that was previously cryptic. She elongates her odd behavior at the Bounderby’s, and, “kept a sharp look out, night and day…” (ch 9). Though a housekeeper, her desire for Mr. Bounderby becomes extremely obvious. She deliberately waits upon Mr. Bounderby in ways Louisa, being the wife, should yet does not. In these chapters, she begins to act upon her inclination, much like Louisa Gradgrind, notably cannot. She targets Louisa in hope of catching her committing adultery. By following Louisa around, and even hiding in a bush outside of the Bounderby country home, a more malicious side of this seemingly innocent and harmless housekeeper is highlighted.

Unknown said...

I would like to say that I completely agree with Sami!! I think that it's extremely ironic that Mr.Gradgring believed all his children need were facts and yet Louisa is beyond miserable which is just a testament to his lack of parenting skills! Louisa blames her lack of happiness on never learning emotional skills and that is truly her fathers fault. However when Sissy persuades James to leave coke town After she vows to help Louisa learn happiness, it makes me question her intentions.

Anonymous said...

I agree with Maddy’s statement that Sissy became almost a “saving grace” for the people of Coketown. The Gradgrinds have now found that their lifestyle was not only boring but unhealthy. Readers were able to see the damaging effects of the rules that Gradgrind lived by. The roles were reversed for Sissy and Gradgrind for the first time in the novel. Now, they, more Louisa, looked to Sissy to help understand the “correct” way to live in the world. I feel like this is a turning point in the novel and readers will see huge changes among all of the characters.

Unknown said...

I agree with Sami’s comment regarding Mr. Gradgrind’s addiction to fact, logic, and reason. He is a very cold calculating man. For example, marrying his daughter to Mr. Bounderby was something that made sense to him. It would further his relationship with Bounderby and secure his daughter’s future economically. After Louisa tells her father she hated her childhood, Gradgrind realizes his faults, and regresses to a point. Unfortunately, the damage was already inflicted and Louisa struggles to forgive him. Gradgrind's philosophy of fact is no doubt the wrong way to raise children and Louisa's character proves that.

Noah Clay said...

I feel the same way as Alex and Sami about Mr. Gradgrind and his infatuation with hard facts. He is constantly super strict in regards to many things because everything has to make sense to him. I believe someone else also quoted this, but he says at one point in Chapter 12 that he raised Louisa in "a state of conscious death". Straight facts bore people to death sometimes.

Anonymous said...

I believe that Merritt was right about Chapter 12 when she said that Mr. Gradgrind will not truly be able to change his ways of parenting and thinking through ways of only facts because it's all he has been around for such a long time now. Yes, he will regret the way he parented Louisa, but it'll be very difficult for him to stop parenting that way since he is so used to it. This was also a very important chapter because Louisa finally voiced to Mr. Gradgrind how much she missed out on from being parented by only going along with the ways of facts. She felt trapped by Mr. Gradgrind as a child then continued to feel trapped again by becoming married to Mr. Bounderby, who is one of Mr. Gradgrind's closest friends. If Louisa was not raised the way she was, she would not be in the situation she is in now.

Noah Clay said...

Wyatt also has really great insight into Louisa's feelings in Chapter Nine. To expand on that, Louisa is in both a state of shock and understanding. She is horrified to see her mother's death and her sister being raised by someone else, but she also realizes that she had done things to upset Mr. Gradgrind.

Anonymous said...

In the chapter “Very Ridiculous,” readers see Sissy and Hathouse interact for the first time. Sissy, somewhat forcefully, requests Harthouse to leave Coketown at once. Unlike anyone else who may have approached Harthouse, Sissy seemed to actually get through to him and make him feel guilty for what he had been doing to Louisa. “She was not afraid of him, or in any way disconcerted; she seemed to have her mind entirely preoccupied with the occasion of her visit, and to have substituted that consideration for herself.” I found it ironic that this little, quiet girl was able to convince a sophisticated and manipulative man to leave town for good. Sissy stood her ground and made Harthouse reflect upon his actions. I believe that this means that Sissy won in this confrontation because she was able to stand her ground and get Harthouse to leave instead of having him laugh in her face.

Anonymous said...


I agree with Katie D’s statement that Sissy played an ironic role when addressing Harthouse. Having grown up with the inability to think for herself due of Mr. Gradgrind, Sissy ends up not only making up her own mind, but asserting it to a superior figure as well.

Unknown said...

In chapter 12, "Down", Louisa speaks out for herself against how she was treated in her early life. She says to her father, "I curse the hour in which I was born to such a destiny." Louisa is standing up to her father, putting her foot down, and saying that the life he provided for her was inadequate and she tells him that the way he treated her was irresponsible, disrespectful, and to be more specific, "my whole life stinks". Louisa feels betrayed by her father. She feels like all he thought about was himself and he paid no mind to her, his daughter.

Anonymous said...

Gradgrind realizes the negative impact his teachings had on Louisa. When Louisa comes to question him about her childhood she asks "what have you done with the garden that should have bloomed once, in this great wilderness here?" Louisa is implying that by Gradgrind's strict use of facts exclusively he restricted her from feeling any love or or emotion, leaving her an empty shell. Gradgrind has an awakening of sorts at this point, and I truly believe that he begins to reform. He truly does love his family and had the best intentions. But he sees that it was ineffective to raise children in such an environment. He's always going to do what's best for Louisa and after her breakdown he sees his mistake.

Unknown said...

I agree completely with Sami's comment. Gradgrind's decisions to change himself came a bit to late, and by that point, it was a point of no return. Gradgrind came to the greatest realization a bit to late, and by doing so burned a bridge, as it were, with his daughter.

Anonymous said...

I agree with Lindsay's comment about Mrs. Sparsit. Dickens allows more insight into her character in chapter 10. It is revealed that Mrs. Sparsit has a malicious and manipulative side of her personality. If Louisa is the protagonist between the two characters, Mrs. Sparsit is obviously the antagonist. Through the symbol of the imaginary staircase, Mrs. Sparsit is awaiting Louisa's downfall. She is definitely not the innocent, virtuous old lady she appears to be. Dicken's emphasizes the point that looks can be deceiving, possibly alluding to Gradgrind's hard exterior, but his willingness and ability to change for the ones he loves.

Unknown said...

When Louisa is confronting her father and asks "What have you done with the garden that should have bloomed once, in this great wilderness here?", it carries the extra weight that only a parent/child relationship can have. Gradgrind should have been the one responsible for nourishing her and helping her thrive because it is his duty as a parent much like it is the duty of a gardener to make sure their plants live to their full potential. It's easy to see why this awakens him to his faulty parenting and almost relieving that a person so hard and dull and strict can still be shown his negative actions and have remorse for them.
Also, the fact that she said garden reminds me of the beginning of the story when he accosts Sissy Jupe for wanting floral wall paper. He doesn't see the usefulness or need for what he considers whimsy, like flowers or gardens, but they're necessary for people (like Louisa) in order to have a happy life because they are an outlet for imagination and creativity.

Anonymous said...

To add to Katie D.'s remarks about Sissy's confrontation with Harthouse, it is a confrontation between passion and emotion, what Sissy represents, and a self-centered, cynical person. Sissy, grown up at last, is young and pretty, and is "not afraid of [Harthouse]". The opposite of fear is what Sissy demonstrates, strong and resolute, she tells Harthouse to leave Louisa for Louisa's own good. Her success shows the strength of passion and emotion triumphing over cynicism.

Anonymous said...

The relationship between Louisa and Gradgrind develops more and more as the story continues. We have already seen previously in the book that Gradgrind did have a very strong belief that he needed to be in charge. It seems as if this is a reoccurring detail that has happened throughout the book only in this section of chapters many 9 and 12 of book II. Now however, Louisa has began to realize what Gradgrind has been doing to her. I also agree with what Wyatt said, "Louisa blames her father about her horrible childhood and tells him that she wouldn't be married to Mr. Bounderby if it wasn't for her father and instead would be married to James Harthouse. Mr. Gradgrind agrees with Louisa but he knows that there is nothing that he can do now, the past is the past." Gradgrind cares but is so unwilling to change his ways and it is a key factor to his character it is something that defines him.

Unknown said...

I agree with Sam's comment on Sissy telling Harthouse to leave Coketown and how she was strong and brave to do so. I think Dickens does well to capture the specific emotions that were shown in this confrontation. "Mr. Harthouse,’ returned Sissy, with a blending of gentleness and steadiness that quite defeated him, and with a simple confidence in his being bound to do what she required, that held him at a singular disadvantage," (ch. 2) This makes me picture a somewhat small girl telling this man that he needs to leave, with such confidence and such strength that he does so. And I think that's exactly what Dickens was hoping for.

Anonymous said...

I agree with Alex's comment regarding chapter 12 being a very important chapter. It is the most pivotal chapter and the climax to the second book. The emotion shown by Louisa is extremely passionate and is reflectant upon the second book as well. Her confrontation with her father is powerful as she is very strong in the expression of her feelings. Her disgust with her fathers ways are clear and it is only further invigorating for her that her father, however remorseful, says he cannot do anything about it. She is also frustrated with her love situation as she feels love for Harthouse but cannot fully express it. At one point Louisa says "if you had known that there lingered in my breast, sensibilities, affections, weaknesses capable of being cherished into strength, defying all the calculations ever made by man." This shows how Louisa feels of her father as she expresses her distaste for her fathers ways.

Anonymous said...

The chapter of "Another Thing Needful" is very different from the very first chapter of "The One Thing Needful". The first chapter of the novel is only a page long and only looks into the characteristics of Mr. Gradgrind. There is a more direct and almost lifeless tone used in this chapter, too, while the first chapter of Book 3 describes how a few characters have changed so far throughout the novel with a more positive tone and shows more of the emotions and feelings of each of the character to represent the change that has occurred with Mr.Gradgrind from being very strict and revolving his life around only facts to a father that has realized that his previous attitude and way of living may have been good for him, but wasn't beneficial to his children. The only character mentioned and described in both chapters is Mr. Gradgrind. "The One Thing Needful" describes him as someone who, in my opinion, sounds like a robot because he in the mindset that "Facts alone are wanted in life" and you can only form the minds of reasoning animals upon facts" (Chapter 1, Book 1). "Another Thing Needful" presents Mr. Gradgrind as someone who has more feelings and genuinely loves his daughter, Louisa, and cares about her. This caring attitude from Mr. Gradgrind is far from what was seen in "The One Thing Needful". He is now feeling very regretful of how he treated Louisa in the past and conflicted about how to move forward with the way he parents his children and lives his life from now on.

Anonymous said...

Based on the new tensions that have become present in Gradgrind and Louisa's relationship it can be predicted that Louisa's realization will make her very stubborn and she will stick to the new attitude she has. It doesn't seem in Gradgrind's nature to be able to give up what he believes in and Louisa is starting to inherit that trait it is possible that their relationship will come crashing down if neither of them will compromise. The chapter is in fact called "Down." His blindness to Louisa's stated unhappiness is also not a good sign. "I have grown up, battling every inch of my way.’
‘I never knew you were unhappy, my child.’‘Father, I always knew it. In this strife I have almost repulsed and crushed my better angel into a demon. What I have learned has left me doubting, misbelieving, despising, regretting, what I have not learned; and my dismal resource has been to think that life would soon go by, and that nothing in it could be worth the pain and trouble of a contest.’‘And you so young, Louisa!’ he said with pity." (pg. 162, ch 12) it is very likely that if their relationship doesn't crumble that Gradgrind will have to do some serious damage control.

Unknown said...

I agree with Merritt's prediction of Gradgrind for future chapters. His regret towards how he raised Louisa, failing his goal to treat his "favourite child" (Book III Ch 1) right and make her happy, continues into the first chapter of Book three. When he enters Louisa's room he is clearly distraught as he is talking "in a subdued and troubled voice, very different from his usual dictatorial manner" (Book III Ch 1). His conversation with Louisa shows that he realizes his mistakes and that he must take responsibility for the failures it caused in raising her. This shows that he most likely will try to make a change towards how he raises his children as Merritt said.

Unknown said...

Although it does seem that Gradgrinds realization that his infatuation with facts was a mistake while raising Louisa came too late, truly, it may not be. Yes for the sake of Louisa the argument is clear that his realization came to late because she can no longer go back to being a child, but for himself in general he can still make a change to benefit those around him. As I said in my previous comment it does seem as though he wants to make a change and he clearly realizes he made a mistake. Whether it is too late depends on what it is in relation to. In relation to Louisa, yes it is too late. However, in relation to himself and those around him it may not be.

Unknown said...

Chapters 10 and 11 definitely show the downward spiral staircase of her life, which was created in Mrs. Sparsit's mind. Mrs. Sparsit fantasizes of Louisa falling into an abyss of darkness. This can be shown on page 678, it says, "The figure descended the great stairs, steadily, steadily; always verging, like a weight in deep water, black gulf at the bottom."Ever since Louisa married Mr. Bounderby, Mrs. Sparsit has tried to find every way possible to separate the two of them." Once she found out that Louise had been spending a lot of time with James Harthouse, it was like a wave of satisfaction because she knew that Louise was falling even deeper into the black abyss.

Unknown said...

One shocking revelation (to me anyways) that occurred during this section was Gradgrind's change of heart. Throughout the novel, he has proven to be consistently hard headed. Nothing seemed to matter to him except for facts. While you couldn't accuse him of being heartless, he did take in Sissy after all, he did put sensibility over his own happiness or the happiness of his family. It took the great tragedy of the death of his wife as well as the mental breakdown of his daughter. After this change of heart, Gradgrind simply wants to help, asking "what can I do child?" of Louisa, hoping to make up for the errors of his past.

Unknown said...

I agree with what Katie's said about Sissy and Harthouse. Sissy really showed a different side of her by being assertive towards Harthouse. This was interesting to see because before Sissy had always been the one taking orders and trying to please others, but for once she is assertive and speaks her mind. This also shows how even though Gradgrind has tried to raise Sissy to only think of facts, she can still think for herself.

Unknown said...

I agree with Katie K's analysis of Mrs. Sparsit. In the first half of the book she seemed like a very innocent character who merely wanted to take care of Bounderby, although I always sensed some omantic feelings between the two. In the latest chapters however, she has turned malicious. She dreams of Louisa being disgraced, and even goes out of her way try and spy on Louisa doing something wrong.

Brittany said...

Louisa is extremely unhappy with her life, she is so from the beginning of the book until the point to where we are now. She feels that she has missed out on the normal, childish and girlish things in life and finds herself to be lacking in normal womanly knowledge. In "Down" Louisa accostes her father, "What has risen to my lips now, would have risen to my lips then, if you had given me a moment's help. I don't reproach you, father. What you have never nurtured in me, you have never nurtured in yourself; but O! if you had only done so long ago, or if you had only neglected me, what a much better and much happier creature I should have been this day". Louisa reproaches him in such a way that it reveals how she wished that she had never been subjected to the life of facts which Gradgrind imposed upon her. She is miserable, and openly admits it. This is an extreme change from earlier when she was both uncaring, emotionless, and factual. She is now open, upset, and tells it to her family.

Unknown said...

I agree with Merritt, when Louisa confronts her father, it is a big moment in her life. Not only does Mr. Gradgrind have the realization of what he has done to his daughter, but Louisa realizes how much better off she would be if she had the free will to have some imagination in her life. She looks at Sissy with almost a wave of envy because she does still have imagination and seems to be so much happier than anyone else. It is highly interesting that Mr. Gradgrind wants to make it up to his daughter.

Brittany said...

I agree with Justin that Mrs. Sparsit doesn't approve of Louisa, and that she wants her to cheat so that it will ruin what little relationship exists between Bounderby and Louisa. I think that when Mrs. Sparsit is talking about the Stairway it is much like the stairway to hell, as when Louisa cheats it is considered a sin. This chapter is very important to Louisa's development as a character, and to the changes which happen within the book regarding Facts and the perception of Coketown.